Is there a fuel dip tube available for the Piper Warrior II
(specifically, pa28-161)? When I flew the 172 I used a fuelhawk dip
tube to measure how much fuel I had. In the warrior there are tabs in
each tank at 17 gals but other than that it seems like guesswork. I
sure would like to find a way to more precisely measure the fuel aboard.
I searched google but could not find anything.

This is triggered because last weekend I told a Signature FBO to fill
the tanks up "to the tabs." The lineman topped the tank off and I had
to have fuel drained before I could leave within gross. This isn't the
first time that has happened to me. It would be much better if I could
dip the tanks and then simply say "put x gallons in left and y gallons
in right" and remove all ambiguity, guesswork, and depedency on
Signature line personell knowing what "to the tabs" means.

TTA Cherokee Driver wrote:
> Is there a fuel dip tube available for the Piper Warrior II
> (specifically, pa28-161)? When I flew the 172 I used a fuelhawk dip
> tube to measure how much fuel I had. In the warrior there are tabs in
> each tank at 17 gals but other than that it seems like guesswork. I
> sure would like to find a way to more precisely measure the fuel aboard.
> I searched google but could not find anything.
>
> This is triggered because last weekend I told a Signature FBO to fill
> the tanks up "to the tabs." The lineman topped the tank off and I had
> to have fuel drained before I could leave within gross. This isn't the
> first time that has happened to me. It would be much better if I could
> dip the tanks and then simply say "put x gallons in left and y gallons
> in right" and remove all ambiguity, guesswork, and depedency on
> Signature line personell knowing what "to the tabs" means.

Yeah, that's a pain. I used to own an Archer that was leased to a flying club,
and the club SOPs called for filling it to the tabs. That just seemed to be too
much for some line people to handle. You have to be very specific when you give
your fuel order, make sure you say "to the tabs" several times, and then ask
whether they know what "to the tabs" means.

I have a non-model-specific measuring device like a fuelhawk. You have to
calibrate it for the airplane (or at least model) where you use it. It's been
rattling around in my flight bag for a while. If I see you at TTA, it's yours.
Guess I'm going to be hanging around TTA a little more since I just joined the
flying club there.

Respond directly to my email and tell me what it's like flying out of TTA.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

Dave Butler wrote:
>>
>> This is triggered because last weekend I told a Signature FBO to fill
>> the tanks up "to the tabs." The lineman topped the tank off and I had
>> to have fuel drained before I could leave within gross. This isn't
>> the first time that has happened to me. It would be much better if I
>> could dip the tanks and then simply say "put x gallons in left and y
>> gallons in right" and remove all ambiguity, guesswork, and depedency
>> on Signature line personell knowing what "to the tabs" means.
>
>
> Yeah, that's a pain. I used to own an Archer that was leased to a flying
> club, and the club SOPs called for filling it to the tabs. That just
> seemed to be too much for some line people to handle. You have to be
> very specific when you give your fuel order, make sure you say "to the
> tabs" several times, and then ask whether they know what "to the tabs"
> means.

That second part is very important. Signature even had written "to the
tabs" on my fuel order. It was because of that they did not charge me
for the draining and refunded me the 10 gallons I made them take out.
The line guy who filled it thought the "tab" was the bottom of the fuel
filler neck. The guy who did the fueling isn't the same guy who took
the order (who I think DID understand), so I'm not sure any amount of
clarifying would have helped in that case.

> Guess I'm going to be hanging around TTA a little more
> since I just joined the flying club there.

Welcome, I'm a member too.

> Respond directly to my email and tell me what it's like flying out of TTA.

will do

Dave Butler wrote:
>
> Respond directly to my email and tell me what it's like flying out of TTA.

Tried but you're over your hotmail storage limit. Clean out your
mailbox and repost.

TTA Cherokee Driver > wrote:
: Is there a fuel dip tube available for the Piper Warrior II
: (specifically, pa28-161)?

I looked for one of these what I first got my Cherokee. I couldn't find one.
I think the dihedral in the Piper wing is to blame.

What I did was to look inside the tank, and then fuel up. I determined that
when the fuel is covering the bottom but not up the side you can see, there
was 5 gallons left, halfway up to the tab was 13 gallons, etc. I don't
remember the exact numbers anymore because the fuel gauges in my airplane
are quite accurate when sitting on the ground.
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)

xyzzy wrote:
> Dave Butler wrote:

> Tried but you're over your hotmail storage limit. Clean out your
> mailbox and repost.

That's odd. Shouldn't be. It *is* cleaned out. Did you remove the letters
S-H-I-R-T from my return address? Sorry for the trouble. Please try again.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

Check with Sporty's. They sell a "gerneric" dip tube called a Fuelhawk. You
can calibrate it yourself for your plane.

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft Musketeer (that has tabs AND slots!)

TTA Cherokee Driver wrote:

> Is there a fuel dip tube available for the Piper Warrior II
> (specifically, pa28-161)? When I flew the 172 I used a fuelhawk dip
> tube to measure how much fuel I had. In the warrior there are tabs in
> each tank at 17 gals but other than that it seems like guesswork. I
> sure would like to find a way to more precisely measure the fuel aboard.
> I searched google but could not find anything.
>
> This is triggered because last weekend I told a Signature FBO to fill
> the tanks up "to the tabs." The lineman topped the tank off and I had
> to have fuel drained before I could leave within gross. This isn't the
> first time that has happened to me. It would be much better if I could
> dip the tanks and then simply say "put x gallons in left and y gallons
> in right" and remove all ambiguity, guesswork, and depedency on
> Signature line personell knowing what "to the tabs" means.

Years ago we wanted a fuel dipstick for our Cherokee 140. One thing we
quickly found out is that dip indications are very sensitive to the angle of
the dipstick. Tilt it a bit and reading can be off by a few gallons,
especially when below half full.

What we ended up using was an old-fashioned wooden paint stirring stick of
the sort that paint stores used to give away. I haven't seen one in years,
but you could easily fashion an equivalent from a 1" wide, 1/8" thick wooden
slat. Make sure it's long enough so that it can't accidentally slip
completely into the tank. We primed and painted the wood a solid background
color. We then drained one tank completely. (We did this after a long
flight, when there were only a few gallons in that tank. We then added
fuel, 5 gallons at a time. After each addition we dipped out wooden stick
into the tank to find the indicated level, which we marked for the
appropriate fuel quantity. Here's the trick: to get repeatable readings,
use the tab in the tank and the inside edge of the filler neck as "rests"
for the stick so that its orientation in the tank is consistent. Finally,
we painted our quantity marks on the stick in a contrasting color. We found
that the dipstick was both accurate and repeatable, and that we could easily
interpolate between the 5 gallon markings to get readings accurate to within
one gallon.

--
-Elliott Drucker

79 cents at Home Depot.

not only are they great for cherokees, but I keep a bunch around
for fiberglass repair (stirrers)

"TTA Cherokee Driver" > wrote in message
...
> Is there a fuel dip tube available for the Piper Warrior II
> (specifically, pa28-161)?

Here's the data I used to make my dipstick (wood paint stirring stick) for
24 gallon tanks:

4= 0"
5= 1"
10= 2 1/4"
15= 4"
20= 5 3/4"
24= 7 1/4"

In article >,
> wrote:
>Years ago we wanted a fuel dipstick for our Cherokee 140. One thing we
>quickly found out is that dip indications are very sensitive to the angle of
>the dipstick. Tilt it a bit and reading can be off by a few gallons,
>especially when below half full.

It's operating on the same principle as the paint stirrer, so they both
need to be inserted consistently into the tank. I use the back edge of
the fuel filler neck as a reference. What the dip sticks DO suffer from
that a paint stirrer doesn't is "bounce". If you dip the tube in and slap
your thumb over it quick it will not have had time to fill. If you wait
a second it will overshoot and then bounce back down. It happens no matter
what the level of the tank but it's hard to see when the tank is half full.
I wait a full five count after dip before putting my thumb on the end.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

Dave Butler wrote:
> xyzzy wrote:
>
>> Dave Butler wrote:
>
>
>> Tried but you're over your hotmail storage limit. Clean out your
>> mailbox and repost.
>
>
> That's odd. Shouldn't be. It *is* cleaned out. Did you remove the
> letters S-H-I-R-T from my return address? Sorry for the trouble. Please
> try again.
>
> Dave
> Remove SHIRT to reply directly.
>

Just tried again. Got this:

The user is over his storage limit. This mail has not
been sent to the recipient(s). Please remove this recipient to send the
message to other recipients.

(I elided your address but I'm pretty sure I followed the despamming
instructions correctly)

That happened while sending to you from hotmail. I'll try to send to
you from yahoo.

John Kunkel wrote:

> "TTA Cherokee Driver" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Is there a fuel dip tube available for the Piper Warrior II
>>(specifically, pa28-161)?
>
>
> Here's the data I used to make my dipstick (wood paint stirring stick) for
> 24 gallon tanks:

do you really mean 25 gallon (24 usuable) tanks?


Thanks for the info.
>
> 4= 0"
> 5= 1"
> 10= 2 1/4"
> 15= 4"
> 20= 5 3/4"
> 24= 7 1/4"
>
>

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:55:04 GMT, "John Kunkel"
> wrote:

>
>"TTA Cherokee Driver" > wrote in message
...
>> Is there a fuel dip tube available for the Piper Warrior II
>> (specifically, pa28-161)?
>
>Here's the data I used to make my dipstick (wood paint stirring stick) for
>24 gallon tanks:
>
>4= 0"
>5= 1"
>10= 2 1/4"
>15= 4"
>20= 5 3/4"
>24= 7 1/4"
>

I use a smooth wooden dowel abut 1/4" diameter and fitted a soft
elastic tube over the the end to stop any chance of damaging the tank.
The top has a small string loop to ensure it's not dropped into the
tank (one of our group had the pleasure of removing and refitting a
tank after dropping a calibrated tube inside!). Calibration is with a
fine 'permanent' marker pen. Occasionally it needs re-marking but
works well.

Both tanks were calibrated by adding fuel, in increments, to our
PA28-161, Warrior II. There was a slight discrepancy between tanks but
not sufficient to cause any serious errors.

It's nice to see some similarity with the poster above. I use the
following which is from fuel added, measured then interpolated from
calibration in litres. It is not on a linear scale. Dipped with stick
approx. in middle of filler hole and on level ground:

Inches USG
============
8.0 24.7
7.0 23.5
6.0 21.8
5.0 19.4
TAB 17.5
4.0 16.6
3.0 13.3
2.0 9.3
1.0 6.3
0.0 4.3


David

Piper Warrior G-BHJO
Scotland, UK

E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot

Any speculation on the corresponding data for Hershey-bar wing Cherokees?
We drive a 74 Archer. Same tank capacity as Warriors and 28-181 Archers,
but the airfoil is presumably different, and therefore the tank sections are
probably different. Anyone know if this is the case? Thanks.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney to love America
> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:55:04 GMT, "John Kunkel"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"TTA Cherokee Driver" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Is there a fuel dip tube available for the Piper Warrior II
> >> (specifically, pa28-161)?
> >
> >Here's the data I used to make my dipstick (wood paint stirring stick)
for
> >24 gallon tanks:
> >
> >4= 0"
> >5= 1"
> >10= 2 1/4"
> >15= 4"
> >20= 5 3/4"
> >24= 7 1/4"
> >
>
> I use a smooth wooden dowel abut 1/4" diameter and fitted a soft
> elastic tube over the the end to stop any chance of damaging the tank.
> The top has a small string loop to ensure it's not dropped into the
> tank (one of our group had the pleasure of removing and refitting a
> tank after dropping a calibrated tube inside!). Calibration is with a
> fine 'permanent' marker pen. Occasionally it needs re-marking but
> works well.
>
> Both tanks were calibrated by adding fuel, in increments, to our
> PA28-161, Warrior II. There was a slight discrepancy between tanks but
> not sufficient to cause any serious errors.
>
> It's nice to see some similarity with the poster above. I use the
> following which is from fuel added, measured then interpolated from
> calibration in litres. It is not on a linear scale. Dipped with stick
> approx. in middle of filler hole and on level ground:
>
> Inches USG
> ============
> 8.0 24.7
> 7.0 23.5
> 6.0 21.8
> 5.0 19.4
> TAB 17.5
> 4.0 16.6
> 3.0 13.3
> 2.0 9.3
> 1.0 6.3
> 0.0 4.3
>
>
> David
>
> Piper Warrior G-BHJO
> Scotland, UK
>
> E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot

IIRC, the taper-wing Cherokees are only different outboard of the fuel tanks. The inboard chunk of the
wings have the same cross-section and thus the same fuel tank geometry. I'm not sure about the taperwing
Arrows, since I think they're 36 gal each or something, rather than 25.

I had the FBO fill up the tanks 5.0 gal at a time after I had to drain them for some reason. Dipped
with a 1/2" wooden dowel and then scratched a line at each position. Very easy, and accurate to within \pm 1/s
gallon. I'll contribute my measurements if interest merits.

-Cory

Bob Chilcoat > wrote: : Any speculation on the corresponding data for Hershey-bar wing
Cherokees? : We drive a 74 Archer. Same tank capacity as Warriors and 28-181 Archers, : but the airfoil is
presumably different, and therefore the tank sections are : probably different. Anyone know if this is the
case? Thanks.

: --
: Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

: I don't have to like Bush and Cheney to love America
: > wrote in message
: ...
:> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:55:04 GMT, "John Kunkel"
:> > wrote:
:>
:> >
:> >"TTA Cherokee Driver" > wrote in message
:> ...
:> >> Is there a fuel dip tube available for the Piper Warrior II
:> >> (specifically, pa28-161)?
:> >
:> >Here's the data I used to make my dipstick (wood paint stirring stick)
: for
:> >24 gallon tanks:
:> >
:> >4= 0"
:> >5= 1"
:> >10= 2 1/4"
:> >15= 4"
:> >20= 5 3/4"
:> >24= 7 1/4"
:> >
:>
:> I use a smooth wooden dowel abut 1/4" diameter and fitted a soft
:> elastic tube over the the end to stop any chance of damaging the tank.
:> The top has a small string loop to ensure it's not dropped into the
:> tank (one of our group had the pleasure of removing and refitting a
:> tank after dropping a calibrated tube inside!). Calibration is with a
:> fine 'permanent' marker pen. Occasionally it needs re-marking but
:> works well.
:>
:> Both tanks were calibrated by adding fuel, in increments, to our
:> PA28-161, Warrior II. There was a slight discrepancy between tanks but
:> not sufficient to cause any serious errors.
:>
:> It's nice to see some similarity with the poster above. I use the
:> following which is from fuel added, measured then interpolated from
:> calibration in litres. It is not on a linear scale. Dipped with stick
:> approx. in middle of filler hole and on level ground:
:>
:> Inches USG
:> ============
:> 8.0 24.7
:> 7.0 23.5
:> 6.0 21.8
:> 5.0 19.4
:> TAB 17.5
:> 4.0 16.6
:> 3.0 13.3
:> 2.0 9.3
:> 1.0 6.3
:> 0.0 4.3
:>
:>
:> David
:>
:> Piper Warrior G-BHJO
:> Scotland, UK
:>
:> E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot



--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

I posted the original query and someone emailed me offline with the
following link:

Aircraft Spruce P/N 12-21255
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/fuelgauges.php

They only offer one tube for the whole PA-28 line so they seem to think
it's the same.

I ordered it and got it last week. So far it seems to be correct within
two gallons. I haven't drained tanks, but I did measure, predict how
much it would take to top the tanks, and then have them topped.


wrote:
> IIRC, the taper-wing Cherokees are only different outboard of the fuel tanks. The inboard chunk of the
> wings have the same cross-section and thus the same fuel tank geometry. I'm not sure about the taperwing
> Arrows, since I think they're 36 gal each or something, rather than 25.
>
> I had the FBO fill up the tanks 5.0 gal at a time after I had to drain them for some reason. Dipped
> with a 1/2" wooden dowel and then scratched a line at each position. Very easy, and accurate to within \pm 1/s
> gallon. I'll contribute my measurements if interest merits.
>
> -Cory
>
> Bob Chilcoat > wrote: : Any speculation on the corresponding data for Hershey-bar wing
> Cherokees? : We drive a 74 Archer. Same tank capacity as Warriors and 28-181 Archers, : but the airfoil is
> presumably different, and therefore the tank sections are : probably different. Anyone know if this is the
> case? Thanks.
>
> : --
> : Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
>
> : I don't have to like Bush and Cheney to love America
> : > wrote in message
> : ...
> :> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:55:04 GMT, "John Kunkel"
> :> > wrote:
> :>
> :> >
> :> >"TTA Cherokee Driver" > wrote in message
> :> ...
> :> >> Is there a fuel dip tube available for the Piper Warrior II
> :> >> (specifically, pa28-161)?
> :> >
> :> >Here's the data I used to make my dipstick (wood paint stirring stick)
> : for
> :> >24 gallon tanks:
> :> >
> :> >4= 0"
> :> >5= 1"
> :> >10= 2 1/4"
> :> >15= 4"
> :> >20= 5 3/4"
> :> >24= 7 1/4"
> :> >
> :>
> :> I use a smooth wooden dowel abut 1/4" diameter and fitted a soft
> :> elastic tube over the the end to stop any chance of damaging the tank.
> :> The top has a small string loop to ensure it's not dropped into the
> :> tank (one of our group had the pleasure of removing and refitting a
> :> tank after dropping a calibrated tube inside!). Calibration is with a
> :> fine 'permanent' marker pen. Occasionally it needs re-marking but
> :> works well.
> :>
> :> Both tanks were calibrated by adding fuel, in increments, to our
> :> PA28-161, Warrior II. There was a slight discrepancy between tanks but
> :> not sufficient to cause any serious errors.
> :>
> :> It's nice to see some similarity with the poster above. I use the
> :> following which is from fuel added, measured then interpolated from
> :> calibration in litres. It is not on a linear scale. Dipped with stick
> :> approx. in middle of filler hole and on level ground:
> :>
> :> Inches USG
> :> ============
> :> 8.0 24.7
> :> 7.0 23.5
> :> 6.0 21.8
> :> 5.0 19.4
> :> TAB 17.5
> :> 4.0 16.6
> :> 3.0 13.3
> :> 2.0 9.3
> :> 1.0 6.3
> :> 0.0 4.3
> :>
> :>
> :> David
> :>
> :> Piper Warrior G-BHJO
> :> Scotland, UK
> :>
> :> E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot
>
>
>